After the post Friday on Things Emergent for John, I have been doing just a small bit of fishing around on this topic, and I have a (middle aged white guy in the suburbs) confession to make.
I confess that I have been secretly harboring conspiratorial Republican patronizing thoughts about The Emergents (nice name for a rock band) over the past little while. I admit that I have been thinking that once these young people get out of the tattooing and coffee-house-hanging phase of their lives, they will see their way straight to getting a mortgage, 2.75 kids, a sensible family van, and then proceed to becoming more mundane and rational. Like I am, darn it.
Guess what? That is not going to happen. I am learning this through my reading of Velvet Elvis that, if The Emergents are anything like Rob Bell, they are reformed in theology, orthodox in faith, and merely want to bring a relevant form of Jesus to a new generation that craves authenticity. So there. Take that stodgy white guy.
Now, two more things, then its off to bed for me. First - go read this, about "doing church for them". It is wonderful. it should be required reading for every stodgy Presbyterian on the planet.
Second, give yourself just a couple of minutes to view this. It is all that really matters. Peace.
11 comments:
I'm half way done with the Velvet...you thoughts are right on Steve...
Just reading the various remarks on Amazon about Velvet makes one wonder how you find any hope in Rob Bell at all. Nothing written by the commentators would lead one to believe that there's anything of much enduring value associated with the "emergent church."
You're better off with Presbyterianism, if you must choose between the two...unless, of course, you're PCUSA.
Peace.
I can hardly take any comments posted on Amazon, ever, as being accurate. Plus, most people who have criticism are going to post, while those who like something usually don't go out of their way. That's just my opinion, and no one else's when it comes to Amazon. Plus Rob Bell has got the those who don't like him fan club, and they will always beat the drum louder anyways.
Great book. I love the NOOMA stuff.
I'm a Presbyterian who is about Emergent, though since I'm PCUSA, I don't know if the prior poster would take me serious.
rhett
For King:
I am an Evangelical Presbyterian (PCUSA). So then, am I damned?
And, I should hope that "anything of much enduring value" is a relative measurement, and not a form of absolute you apply to all things Christian.
I am a follower of Jesus Christ who happens to currently serve within an Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC) but who would feel equally comfortable in a Baptist church or Lutheran church or Pentecostal church or Charismatic church... because, as the link so beautifully illustrates, "church" is not the focus of Chrsitainity - Jesus is.
Tonight I found myself wondering if I am just starting to awaken...
and, for that matter, if anyone else is, too...
Steve--
The PCUSA ordains women to the ministry, which the apostle Paul strictly forbids. They may even ordain homosexuals. That I don't know for sure. You can tell me.
In 1 Cor 14 Paul states that those who do not recognize his command for women to be silent in the church are themselves not recognized by apostolic authority. That means that the PCUSA is not recognized by God's Spirit as one of Christ's churches. Your "church" is not worth the investment of your time. God does not recognize it as belonging to Him anyway.
If you would be faithful to Christ, you must make your stand against them and depart from the idolaters.
Dandy--
To say that Jesus is the focus of Christianity does not negate in the least New Testament commands regarding the ordering of the church and the path of personal discipleship.
Jesus works in this world through His church. Therefore it very much matters that she watches her life and doctrine closely.
This idea that faith in Jesus is the only thing that matters leads right to the shallowness and superficiality of modern Christianity. Both the Lord Himself and the apostles said a great deal more than, "Believe in Jesus."
No King:
Thanks for your comments. However, in the future, perhaps we might do more for the Body by being an encouragement to one another. I think we all might be surprised, in various ways, when we get to Glory. This is, assuming I will make it in.....
Good grief, Steve. Your attitude is precisely why modern Christianity is so anemic and pathetically impotent.
I gave you the Word of God from 1 Cor 14, which prohibits women from speaking in the Christian assembly, and you blithely dismissed it, while at the same time indicating that only "encouraging" words are helpful to the Body.
You are certainly a product of the times, my friend.
The Bible is more than a book of spiritual ispiration and encouragement, in case you haven't noticed.
2TI 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
2TI 3:17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Look at all the different ways the Word of God is to function in our lives, and which you are apparently very ready to dismiss.
If the Word of Christ rejects those churches which allow women to teach and speak in the assembly, then you have a responsibility to reject those churches as well. You cannot claim to be a follower of Jesus and just dismiss His Word so baldly and irreverently.
1 Cor 14:33 As in all the congregations of the saints,
1CO 14:34 women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
1CO 14:35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
1CO 14:36 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached?
1CO 14:37 If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command.
1CO 14:38 If anyone does not recognize this, he himself is not recognized.
This was and is a very serious matter to the Christ of the Word.
But maybe we should rebuke the Holy Spirit for His lack of encouragement to the Body?
God help us.
Ouch......Uncle!! You win. You kicked my sorry, pathetic, little blaspheming butt with your Scriptural references. I relent. You are the final arbiter of all truth in life. You know it all. And now I know I am not going to make it in. I think I will become a Druid instead.
Mock, if you must.
The Word of the Lord nevertheless stands true. 1 Cor 14 and 1 Tim 2 will be your accusers on the Day. I'm just doing you the kindness of providing advanced warning.
MT 5:10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
MT 5:11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
MT 5:12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
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